Thursday, October 19, 2017

Female Orgasm and How Biology is a Jerk

O, cruel biology
This is a rerun.*  Do not be alarmed. 

So I was going through your responses to the questions about clit-vag distance and its relation/non-relation to your propensity to come via straight-on intercourse alone (Woo! Sexy talk. Is it hot in here?) and now I am just...depressed. Or possibly pissed off. At the very least, I am most certainly miffed.

Why? Because of those among you who can have an orgasm--like no problem--with no other kind of hand stimulation, mouth assistance, divine intervention--nothing. Practically all the time.

For example, in response to "Do you come easily, sometimes or never via intercourse alone?" Anonymous commented:

"rather easily and usually multiple times"

And Naomi bragged answered:

"always come easily, no fingers or appliances needed (or even wanted, too distracting from the main event)"

For me, coming from just fucking alone has happened--maybe--five times. In my life. And that's rounding up.

It's biological tyranny, I say.

For men and the rare lucky chick who just needs a little in-and-out to come "rather easily and usually multiple times," let me explain. I think porn and romance novels and the in-and-out chicks have skewed what we think is a "normal" sexual response. Despite what we see and read all the damn time, the majority of women need some sort of extra stimulation to have an orgasm. The vast majority of women. That's just how it is.

Several men and women, who I consider to be generally enlightened, have mentioned variations of "it just takes the right man"--which is, I think, only true to a certain extent. Yes, some men are much better lovers. Yes, some men's parts are more compatible with your own. And yes, some men will get you so hot you could practically come from their gaze. All of these are good and can help.

However, in most women, the clit is where things are happening. But in a cruel twist of nature, Today's Generally Accepted Fuck Moves are happening in the vagina, which is annoyingly close to the clit, but...not...quite...there. Men, picture if your main sensory pleasure center was, say, on your perineum but you were expected to get to your bliss via regular old boning. You could get close. Your balls might rub against there occasionally, or you might figure out some crazy-ass position that sort of almost did the trick. But it wouldn't the kind of direct you-are-there-stimulation you'd need.

This is not to say that most women don't like pure fucking because we do. We definitely definitely do. And not just gentle soul-lock lovemaking--sometimes the hard and fast porny fuck pounding, too.

Wrote JS: I like the fuck pounding even if it doesn't "get me there." This is what I crave during sex, a certain amount of roughness or hard thrusting. The soft stuff and touching is great also, but I can do that on my own. I can't fuck myself hard.

Added Anon: Oh, hell yes!! But I don't come like this. Just enjoy it for the raw intensity and squishy noises. :)

I was feeling embittered by this and started wondering if I were a bad lay. After all, would you rather fuck someone who came "rather easily and usually multiple times" (sorry, I'm obsessed with this) or someone who was going to need a hand, and not in a metaphoric sense? I mean I can see that there's a certain hotness in being able to control a woman's orgasm with your touch or to be able to watch her as she brings herself to that place, but damn, I was still a little jealous.

Luckily Trisha, who's making a completely cool sounding movie about female sexual response called Science Sex and the Ladies [update:  She made it!] calmed my ass down over at Reddit:

Agreed, it does make you feel high-maintenance and frustrated sometimes, but I say we think of these "in and out" orgasmers in a different way; as a really small minority - like the 1% billionaires. They're loud and influential, and the culture seems to be shaped around their needs, but it shouldn't be. The vast majority of us, and probably a lot more than we'd think, are in the same boat. We just need to start shaping the culture more around our majority situation; then we wouldn't have to feel so frustrated for no reason. Let's rise up Grinders and Manual Stimulators!! :)

While I head to my workshop to make signs for a Grinders and Manual Stimulators rally, here's a bit more from Trisha:

Masters and Johnson found and recorded physiological evidence of some women who orgasmed from penetration alone, but hypothesized it was a Rube-Goldberg situation where the penis pulled on the inner lips which pulled on the clitoral hood, which rubbed against the clitoris. These orgasms were just like the ones they recorded from more direct clit stimulation, but were the weakest orgasms they recorded - not surprising since it was the most indirect way to stimulate the clit. They didn't find any anatomical characteristics that predicted the ability to have orgasms this way.

Not only do I very much like the Rube Goldberg reference tossed into a discussion of fuckery, but this idea of the weaker orgasm is interesting to me.

I asked a friend if she could come via straight ol' p-in-v (Yes, my social skills could use a little refinement. Thanks for noticing!) and she said, "Sure. Sometimes." When she saw my face darken with envy, she added kindly, "But they aren't as good as the ones I get when I masturbate."

I come away (not via vaginal intercourse, as you now know) even more confused. Are women's orgasms via sex generally weaker than via external stimulation? Are men a little bummed out when they get a woman who requires more work? Shouldn't our high-maintenance ancestors been edged out through evolution--how are we the majority? And how fucking unfair is it that most of us get what might be seen as a pretty major genetic rip off?

I'm also having new admiration for straight men, gay chicks and other lovers of women. I know every new lover is a different country to discover and all that, but seeing the huge variations in what women want, like and require made me realize just how hard it would be to fuck a woman well. The focus-on-the-clit move that would be meltingly blissful to one would be way too intense for another. Men are different from each other too, of course, but it doesn't seem like the differences between them are quite as extreme.

What do we do with all this? Well, we keep talking about it and how female sexuality actually works instead of how we think it should probably work. Just fucking do it. If not for you, then for your sisters, so that we may all go forth and fuck freely and well as nature intended.

xoxo
jill

*Why am I running this again? Because just the other day a grown man, a perfectly smart and earnest one, told me that his new girlfriend probably had a biological issue because she couldn't come via his his smart and earnest thrusting.

photo: Etude de nu 1950 by Raymond Van Doonen

34 comments:

Mongo, At The Moment said...

Q: Are men a little bummed out when they get a woman who requires more work?

A: If they are, they're not paying attention.

I wanted to say: It doesn't matter how you got there, but that you came -- but it does matter. Unless it doesn't.

I trust that makes it clear.

Spiffy McBang said...

Aiming Outside The Strike Zone

Vibrators During Sex: From Only If We Need It To Always (Unless We Don't)

Math To Teach Boys: Dick + Vibrator + Orgasm > Dick - Orgasm

Girls Like Reacharounds Too (I'm too uncoordinated to speak to the accuracy of this, plus it's usually easier if she does it; I just like it as a phrase)

I've mentioned in a couple comments dating someone who you might reflexively hate due to the number of orgasms she can have in a three to four hour span, through any method. If I were still with her I would recuse myself from this contest. But I'm not.

/sadface

But I do have at least a mutual eyeballing thing going on with someone, so if declared the victor I don't think this prize would go to waste.

blue said...

title: it's not you, it's me


i only get The Big One if i'm laying flat, face down, like a stranded whale. not the most convenient position for fucking. i've only gotten off that way with someone else in a 69 (all of three times). since i haven't had partnered sex in 2 years and i'm still on the fence about buying myself a vibrator, i think i'm a prime candidate for this prize.

GibbyGoo said...

Title: Contemplations on the big O from a little P-in-V

Cagey-C said...

I can't actually enter, because I'm partnered with one of the anonymouses (anonymice? No, that can't be right) who has sparked your existential crisis. And I will own up to feeling incredibly fortunate about that--but that general sense of gratitude goes far beyond sex.

I echo Mongo--any man who feels bummed about getting a woman who requires more work really has his head rectally ensconced. Regardless of whether penetration alone can cause a woman to come, any regular coupling which involves penetration alone displays a truly impoverished imagination.

Bodies, in all their variations, are amazing things. I'm trying not to get too saccharine, but I'm enough of a sentimentalist to believe that having another person's body shared with you (by them, I mean; not like some sort of communal cannibalistic feast or something) is such a gift, you owe it to them--and to yourself--to explore as fully as possible. How you come is how you come; there doesn't need to be a value judgment attached to that. And sometimes (as a guest poster shared some time ago) that's not even the point. Enjoying the company, the entanglement, and the bodyful of sensations is.

Space Cowgirl said...

So it takes a little more work, it's only work if you'd rather be doing something else! (some play write said that last part)

Savoy Truffle said...

Title: Tootsie Roll VS Tootsie POP

Do you think of the Tootsie Pop as high maintenance, or more candy goodness to enjoy?

Anonymous said...

"Not my POV" (No O in P-V for me)

My current partner is the best lover I've ever had. Hands down (and inside, around, and all over).

But he recently, very concernedly asked me if the sex was good, because he has never had to work so hard with anyone before. (We have sex frequently* when we're together-though not always as frequently as I would like-but I orgasm only rarely**.)

Luckily, I'm confident enough in myself and enjoy the act so thoroughly that this doesn't make me feel dysfunctional. But it would still be nice to have a toy to use with him. :)

*1-3 times a day
**once in maybe 40 encounters

Trisha said...

I love this post Jill! You are awesome...and I'm so glad I was able to calm you down a bit :)

Please do let me know when your rally signs for the Grinders and Manual Stimulators are finished - because I need to start getting a plan together for that rally ;)

Also, I think the contest is fantastic, but I will not be participating because, strangely, I was already lucky enough to win a vibrator at the Halloween party I attended last night.

Belinda said...

I need to add that Dr. Drew of Loveline has told a caller that it is completely normal for an orgasm to be more intense with masturbation than with plain-old, regular intercourse.

Carmen said...

I definitely had the experience of "finding the right guy." Not that I advocate waiting for "the right guy", and "the right guy" and I use a vibrator during sex a lot. Really though, the change wasn't some kind of crazy sex moves so much as the fact that he actually payed attention to what was working for me during p-v sex, and did more of it. I honestly thought I needed a lot of intense clitoral stimulation, when I can also come from specific vaginal stimulation. So, I lied. I totally advocate waiting/looking for a guy who's willing to put a lot of effort into pleasing you in bed.

@blue: I suggest trying sex from behind/doggy style next time you're having it. I come more easily lying on my front as well, and I've found that the position can be approximated, if not exactly recreated that way. Also buy a damn vibrator already.

in bed with married women said...

i'm going to put some of the email comments below so that we're all included in the conversation. will put their answers as from anonymous.

anonymous said...

I would title your post: "I think I can, I think I can... I wish I could."

It isn't easy, is it? I can get hot and bothered at the most random times, but then when the moment of truth comes, most of the time I have to psych myself up for the main act. It always seems to be easier for me to come at the start of a new relationship, or when I'm with someone I have no intention of dating monogamously. Why is that? Am I an adrenaline junkie? There's something about the "good girl" mentality that we are programmed to ascribe to, yet in the end, all it seems to do is inhibit us. We make great partners; but complacent, potentially boring mates. That is, if we let ourselves. So, we scour our feelings; trying to discern if something is wrong with us? Wrong with our mates? Has the chemistry gone sour? Are we overthinking this? Why is it so hard to just let loose and enjoy this one, primal thing that we are designed to enjoy?

I still haven't figured it out, yet.

Love reading your posts!

anonymous said...

one, the measurement for me was right at an inch/thumb.

two. i'm a complicated beast when it comes to sex. (ha. no pun intended that time.) if i'm superturnedon by someone, then it's ridiculous how easy i am. pants on sometimes. sometimes the instant pants are off and penetration happens it's like 10-30 seconds. however. that's usually at the beginning of a relationship and usually it gets lame quickly after that. the old 'p n v' 'pounding' thing does NOT do it for me. painful actually 90% of the time. and boring. my cervix doesn't like to be pounded. maybe once a year if i'm SUPERcrazyneedingit it works. that said, only one man i've been with ever (and the one woman, well, she was much better at it, but eh, not so much really.) had any idea what to do with me with fingers. most men do this weird tapping thing (where did they learn that, porn?) or, sort of, itch it, or something... and calluses nonwithstanding, they're not super gentle. nor do they take the time necessary. so i usually get annoyed, tell them to quit, and just get it over with and stick it in. (awesome, yes. hence the single-ness. this happened not just with the last one, but it's most vivid at the moment. wasn't able to take suggestions. sigh.) AND i agree with the rube-goldberg theory for why it's easy for me p n v -wise, even though i'm on the edge of the measuring-average. now, while with just myself, i can do EITHER clit or vag stimulation, or a combo sorta, and depending, that usually takes 4-15 minutes, and which one works depends on my mood (i sound like SUCH a pain in the ass, but for some reason i'm ok with me... just wondering if anyone else ever would be at this point... if i wanted to sleep with me at all, i'd be stoked and up for the challenge... sigh...)........... anyway. so. while it sounds cool that a couple times in my life i've had 4 orgasms in a sesh and the first one or two were way too easy and went on to do it more times in 24 hours... those occasions are SUPER RARE and depend on my emotional state, connection (or imagined connection. sigh.) to my partner... or how long it's been and how many people are in the house when with myself. (zero = 1-3 times by myself and superfun but not usually as good as possible with a partner, one + people in the house with thin walls= maybe once, quietly, because i just had to). AND i had some terrible experiences with guys attempting oral sex so basically am afraid of it and can't imagine they'd actually like it so never let anyone. which i think is sad. and hope chances with whoever manages to show up next in my life. SO. you might, with your particular issues, still be doing just fine. perhaps in the top 1% :)

three. my best girlfriend had issues with orgasming during regular p n v intercourse. for ages. and was shocked (i was not, given her choices of partners till this point) when she met someone who was both a more skilled lover and more intelligent/kinder/moreinteresting, and she can go all night and come all over the place. so. you never know. girls are complicated, which is why i like them better.

xo.

Space cowgirl said...

Here's a title possibility: "The Pompitous of Love"

Your blog made me start singing that song by Steve Miller that goes,
"really love your peaches wanna shake your tree. Which made me think
of the rest of the lyrics...

What the hell is the pompitous of love anyway? Well in just a little,
very little research it seams that E.M Forester wrote a book a hundred
years ago called Maurice. It explored a homosexual relationship, but I
digress. Who does understand that phrase, but its fun to sing, who
does understand orgasms really, but there fun to have. I don't want my
mystery solved too easily, thank you.

They way I look at it, (since I'm in the 99% of women that needs my
tree shaked a bit to give up my peaches) I think it a very useful
evolutionary tool that benefits future generations. Here's why, if I,
and a majority of women were members of the 'in and out, oh god'
sorority, mankind would be extinct.

I know for a fact that I would drag home EVERY Tom, Dick and Harry,
regardless of nonexistant brainpower, manners or work ethic. Why not,
if they can butter my toast with so little effort? So that would mean
we'd be reproducing a lot of brainless, rude and lazy Tom, Dick and
Harry Jr.'s. (makes you wonder?)

Not me, sister. No DNA lottery in this house! My hunka-hunka burnin'
love had to show me his resume, outlast the probation period and prove
he could do the job (reliably and consistently) before we were
co-habitating, let alone makin' babies. Needles to say, the ones we
have are honor students.

I am not jealous in the least of those girls with the locks that are
easy to pick, no way, no gangsters of love in my house.

By the way, I LOVE your work, it's my favorite procrastination
destination when I have a big paper to write for grad school, like
right now. I am working on an masters in social work because I too,
think we ALL deserve justice!!

Sarah P said...

I'd call it Come As You Are.

.....I'm a big fan of puns?

William Quincy Belle said...

In 1976, Shere Hite shocked the world with her revelations in her book The Hite Report on Female Sexuality: 70% of women do not have orgasms through in-out, thrusting intercourse but are able to achieve orgasm easily by masturbation or other direct clitoral stimulation.

Orgasm by penetration alone is the exception to the rule. Heck, let's discuss the percentage who have no orgasm at all! (Hello, Betty Dodson) So, Jill, you are part of the 99%. Fortunately I discovered early in my career that "direct clitoral stimulation" can be the most intimate and sensual addition to love-making. For those men who skipped that part of their own sex education, I am sorry to report you have missed out on the best part of physical communication between partners.


Wikipedia: Shere Hite

Amazon: The Hite Report: A National Study of Female Sexuality

Wikipedia Betty Dodson

Anonymous said...

I am a man and I read your column religiously. Please note : I am not a religious man ( anymore) but LOve IBWMW.
My dear wifey can only come in the "cowgirl" position. NOTHING else works for her and when the CG works there is this really BIG explosion after much build - up to orgasm. I have several of her quirks to overcome:...
1) She does not allow me to do any tongue - lashing - type foreplay nor...
2) any use of my manual dexterity in "that area"


Approx 5 years ago I became unable to physically maintain the necessary penile turgitude to allow her to complete. This caused several years of experimentation and failure and suppressed anger. Her only relief came from use of the wonderful Hitachi Magic Wand, used externally on her while she was in the face - down position, and this saved our marriage, but became numbingly predictable, and our frequency slowly dwindled.

On to a happy ending, if you will pardon the pun. Two weeks ago, I asked her to stimulate me while I had the normal P- I - V portion of the mish segment of our intimacy. As long as the toy was there she experimented with it on herself while i was enjoying my superior position, and there was a revelation ( again not religious). She suddenly enjoyed the missionary postion and had her first big "O" in the old tired mish. I do hope this leads to some experiments and a relief from the lack of the old C-G -"O".
More on this later
Thanks again for IBWMW, keep up the excellent writing!

in bed with married women said...

I"m looking over these comments again and realize how fucking in love I am with each and every one of you. Real life trial-and-error reports, academic citations, funniness and/or bandying about of terms like "existential crisis" in a sex blog--this is why I love you so.

Anyway the winner is Space Cowgirl, who, admirably, is going to grad school in social work to get Justice for the People. Also she donated 8 bucks via Paypal, which may have influenced me unduly. It will all come out in court, I suppose.

Cagey-C said...

It would have been better had I thought to call it a "sexistential crisis." Obvious, perhaps--but not enough to make me think of it at the time.

still anonymous said...

As the anonymous "rather easily and usually multiple times" woman, I know that I am not normal. This revelation has come at a cost(pun intended), as I have sought out therapy to deal with my "affliction" of being a highly sexual woman. It's not easy being different/outside the norm. I recommend that those of you that don't orgasm easily from strictly penetration don't be so envious of what appears to be my good fortune. It is sometimes as much of a burden as it is a blessing. Not "normal" is just not normal. It's not easy being green, so says Kermit.

Mrs J said...

Late to the party, as usual but something to add (as usual!).

I seem to recall from my days as a Gender & Women's Studies student that someone had mentioned in a study that actual penetration is a barrier/hinderance to a woman's orgasm, and that women are far less likely to orgasm with penetration. Maybe Camille Paglia? (Spelling??) Thought it might be something you'd like to chase down.

I certainly find that orgasms are muted/dulled during penetration, compared to those experienced without penetration.

I'm not eligible to enter the competition, nor am I in time for it, but I'd call this post "I wank, therefore I come".

Anonymous said...

New to this site (Thanks to Jill for posting a comment and her URL on Savage Love) and I happen to have about 2 inches between vag and clit. A few things about that:
1) I can (not always and not lately) have multiple orgasms (4-5 at a time) without stimulation, just by tightening my PC muscle--I've been doing it since I was a kid. Small ab crunches can make that happen too.
2) Those PC muscle-orgasms aren't as intense as when there is clitoral stimulation (hand, vibrator, tongue)
3) I would have thought that since my clit is so much higher than my vag, I'd be able to have orgasms while on top, but nope. Only a couple times has that happened when I was younger and in really really good shape and I have to arch forward and really make that PC muscle work. Otherwise, I gotta go missionary or do something else.
4) I'm in my 40's, pregnant, and not in the best shape so lately the PC muscle tightening isn't working. Even clitoral stimulation takes longer these days. Doing my Kegels lately is more about preventing incontinence (because of the pregnancy) than improving my sex life, but I wonder if there are women out there who have ratcheted up their Kegel activity and seen a difference in quantity, quality, or type of orgasm?

As I expected, our bodies are all so different but I think most women need and even prefer clitoral stimulation to have those really intense orgasms.

Can't wait to dig into the site a bit more!

in bed with married women said...

Still Anonymous--Now I feel all crass and junk. Thank you for sharing your tale from your vantage on the, I don't know, orgasm continuum. I hope it all shakes out to be less burden, more gift for you.
Lady J--now wishing I took women's studies classes and had been discussing orgasms instead of whatever boring ass things my somnambulant English teachers were talking about.
Anonymous--Welcome! Feel free to poke around. You can even do incontinence-preventing Kegels at the same time. No one will be the wiser.

Anonymous said...

1) I do come from P&V sex. Not easily though and almost exclusively in missionary BUT they are the most outrageous, mind-blowing, existential experiences imagineable. And it does take some work from my partner so they have to be in good physical condition. The 24% (yes, I've done the math) that can get me to that height always have the same question when it's over: "Are you all right?" Which should give you some idea what I must look like during. I don't even want to know.
2) ONCE, a year ago, I came in the doggie style position hands free and was so astounded that it took me a minute to figure out what was happening. So you CAN teach an old dog new tricks!
3) My sister spontaneously orgasms when she is anxious and running, like trying to catch a plane. What kind of freak is she?!

Anonymous said...

Interesting. I come from just vaginal stimulation a very small percentage of the time, but when I do it's always way more intense than just a clitoral orgasm.

Lady J said...

I like how I've been elevated from "Mrs" to "Lady" - I'm going to stick with that from now on!

Has just occured to me that it might have been Andrea Dworkin (again spelling?).

Gender & Women's studies was really awesome, and not the hotbed of rampant, hairy, man-bashing lesbianism that my peers all assume. We looked at all sorts of diverse issues relating to G & W. I think you'd have enjoyed it (probably complementary to your English studies, rather than instead of).

Dusky said...

I'm too late for the competition (damn it!) but I would absolutely have been eligible, and I just want to say a big THANK YOU for this post. I have also had about 5 orgasms from intercourse alone in my entire life, and I have felt exactly the same! Envy of the girls who come easily, worry that the boys would find pleasuring them more pleasurable, and excessive frustration over not getting there! (So frustrated in fact that I flew to London to get there that way once more, but we know how that turned out!)

Incidentally re the boys-prefering-easy-to-satisfy girls, I had at one point asked the London lover if I was difficult to please in bed. He thought it was a ridiculous question, teased me for asking, and told me that pleasure is all about chemistry and passion. I guess looking at it his way, when the passion is there then it doesn't matter what kind of girl you are... you will be in your best state for experiencing pleasure, and your lover will be loving every minute of giving you pleasure by whatever means necessary.

Anonymous said...

Are you really tall in stature? I'm curious. I'm wondering if short women benefit from a closer arrangement of, you know, everything else.

Bluebard said...

Orgasms and response - oh my god - so much to say.
In my experience, and informed by my training and such (I am lucky to be surrounded by a lot of women who are very well versed in what turns them on, and what turn on really is): turn on is a combination of so many things, and it is a changeable, mutable and educate-able thing. What turns any of us on can change and grow fantastically.
Turn on, and the consequent joy, exhiliaration, pleasure, orgasm and climax (orgasm and climax are distinct in my learning, and this is repeated in the work of the One Taste folks offering the Orgasmic Meditation practices)i s learned and can grow enormously.
We train each other about what turns us on. NO WAY is this fixed in the anatomy. We learn to get turned on by sweet attention to the clit, to the breasts, to the cock, vagina, and whatever else there is that feels good. We can learn to have orgasms from all sorts of attention, stroking, licking, fucking, slapping, biting, whatever.
Turn on and coming are no way fixed nor static in my experience.
We learn it, and we teach it - to ourselves and our lovers.
My sweet lover who I have had the pleasure to pleasure for the last 10 years currently absolutely LOVES to have me fuck her. She comes in her vagina, she comes from her G-spot. It spreads to her clit, and anywhere else that has got turned on in any one particular evening (or sweet morning of dalliance). And it was not always so. Her clit was the best way top get her to climax hard. Still is sometimes, but the repertoir just keeps expanding. It blows us away, we feel so fortunate.
But I do not think we are unique. I think this is available to anyone. Just Keep Playing! What joyful research this is.
And MEN: pay attention to what she likes. Sometimes I think my ears are my best tool for understanding my lover, and what she wants.
Listen, man! To her moans, to her speach, to what she says when you are in the grocery store.
There is gold in there.
The academic researchers have got it so wrong. Great sex is not a function of a (fictitious) fixed model of anatomy. It is a function of play, of passionate attention. It is a most wonderful dance, and the more you dance, them more wonderful it gets.
BTW - the best sex I have ever had - is with women past menopause. OMG. Thanks for reading.

Heather said...

"To Come or Not to Come...that is the question."

I do not orgasm from p in v. I'm 46 and maybe have twice and that was from a lot of hot foreplay. I definitely have more intense orgasms from manual stimulation or oral.

Luke said...

OK. Here's my 2 cents. I love going down on a woman and, truth be told, you all generally cum too early for me. I mean, what could be better than getting her pussy very wet and drinking all that in? Then there is just the tactility of it all... my lips on hers, my tongue on her clit, and getting a finger inside to massage her G-spot. [Yes, Virginia, there is such a thing.] The "spending time" aspect is work, yes, but well worth the effort -- for both of us. It's like her orgasm becomes mine and emotionally it can be very satisfying. I could go on and on but the house painters are here and I have to move my car out of the driveway.

Anonymous said...

Oh, hey, Jill -- Let me add one thing to my comment above. The other day I cleaned our oven. Truly a dark and dirty job. My wife said seeing me working in that cavern really turned her one. Sex was great!

Anonymous said...

New to pillow talk: "Would you like your oven cleaned tonight?"

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