tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post7909780203602665620..comments2024-03-21T18:26:23.834-07:00Comments on In Bed With Married Women: How Sex at Dawn is blowing my mind in about 64 different waysJill Hamiltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14989469118118455602noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-47718428491319411522014-12-16T05:48:36.396-08:002014-12-16T05:48:36.396-08:00I'm more awake now (I think. this could all ju...I'm more awake now (I think. this could all just be a weird dream, and at some point I'll look down and realize that I'm turning into a sea urchin, and being chased by vampire geese) so, yeah. What do you want to know? I mean, that post last night was a brief, slightly garbled, summary of about 1.5 years of conversations that i've had with my husband about this.<br /><br />Anyway, I'll send you a contact form thingy, so that you can e-mail me directly if you so feel like it. Happy to answer questions, etc.Virginia Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18211432405256644102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-48327366197232445342014-12-15T18:55:30.284-08:002014-12-15T18:55:30.284-08:00okay Virgina G. you should write all this down. ...okay Virgina G. you should write all this down. this is good stuff and i want to know more. #bossyin bed with married womenhttp://www.inbedwithmarriedwomen.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-299593208277077762014-12-15T18:49:38.045-08:002014-12-15T18:49:38.045-08:00Yes! Stuff! Smart stuff!
I have the things to say...Yes! Stuff! Smart stuff!<br /><br />I have the things to say and tragically it is 9:43 pm which is veering dangerously close to my bedtime so the brain workings are not so much.<br /><br />This is something my husband and I have been mulling over quite a bit after 10 years of marriage and while I think being non monogamous would work just fine for us, it has been surprisingly difficult to find partners outside the marriage who can deal with stuff emotionally.<br /><br />Lots of cultural baggage.<br /><br />The important thing for me, is to be able to separate the cultural baggage from my own empirical baggage. And then maybe shove all that fucking baggage into the garbage and do whatever the fuck it was that I wanted to do in the first place. Within reason. I try not to hurt others.Virginia Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18211432405256644102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-36992749667108176702012-06-30T22:04:29.415-07:002012-06-30T22:04:29.415-07:00I like how so many people eat up "studies sho...I like how so many people eat up "studies show" and then treat it as fact. <br /><br />If you spent any time looking into the studies that people mention in books and take time to analyze sample size and if they even properly designed their studies you would find that there is so much error.<br /><br />Humans are the worst test subjects for behaviour because there is no way you can control for the millions of factors that come into play in our extremely complex society. <br /><br />Don't be so quick to hop in with a conclusion that sounds like it would fit the behaviour. But that doesn't stop people from making attractive books to read, even though their methods in determining their conclusions are sketchy at best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-4539601703816006922012-06-02T16:15:35.843-07:002012-06-02T16:15:35.843-07:00Love this book - it has changed my perspective on ...Love this book - it has changed my perspective on the whole of our society and I now question everything which is enormously liberating. <br />Like another poster said, I too have trouble getting others to read the book despite my continued recommendations. And I've found that when I openly question social constructs and point them out as such people just don't want to know. We have all been "groomed" since birth to believe a lot of rubbish and I think it's hard for people to acknowledge or even consider that as a possibility. <br />Oh and if I speak about sex openly, especially really liking sex, oh the stunned and shocked silence! A he'll of a lot of people really do believe that women are not supposed to like sex. Their lose...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-50763037523703540192012-06-02T11:04:13.603-07:002012-06-02T11:04:13.603-07:00Domanda, thanks for the head's up. If anyone ...Domanda, thanks for the head's up. If anyone is interested in further reading on such things, yesterday's post was about reader book suggestions sparked by this post. Here's the link, if you're feeling it:<br />http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.com/2012/06/reader-book-recommendations-day-2.html.<br /><br />Meg, that dude thought his comment was so hilarious he put it like 4 times. <br /><br />M. love the perspective of women from difference era, as well. thanks!in bed with married womenhttp://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-55248532675702132002012-06-02T10:19:07.387-07:002012-06-02T10:19:07.387-07:00I'm fortune as 21st century human primates go,...I'm fortune as 21st century human primates go, I never did buy into monogamy. Sexually active since the 70s, between the feminism developing socially around me, and the stark contrast between what felt good and made sense to me personally and the bleak frankly biased repressive ugliness in the mores of the 'monogamous' good old boys around me - it was easy to choose my own values over some artificial monogamous ideal clearly constructed to control me or limit my behavior and free choice as a human being. I love Sex at Dawn. High time someone offered a vigorous challenge to the lies told by our patriarchal government and anti-woman religions,Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974816678922236546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-29927443455872157462012-06-02T07:58:46.791-07:002012-06-02T07:58:46.791-07:00Bowen said : "This discussion is silly. Girls...Bowen said : "This discussion is silly. Girls don't like sex. They put up with it for various reasons, but pleasure is certainly not anywhere on the list."<br /><br />As a woman: HAHAHAHAHA! That was a good one. My orgasms are illusions!! Needed a good laugh, thanks.<br /><br />I love the idea of a more sexually open society.Megnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-76019229373750089222012-06-02T00:59:05.399-07:002012-06-02T00:59:05.399-07:00I suspect you'll get some other readers to fil...I suspect you'll get some other readers to fill the gap from those who left back in February since Christopher Ryan just posted a link to your blog on his Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/sexatdawn (which is how I ended up here). In response to people who still want monogamous relationships even in light of what S@D has to say, I'll paraphrase Ryan by saying that monogamy is a perfectly respectable choice. He compares it to vegetarianism in that it's a way that modern humans can choose to live for very good personal reasons. However, given that humans evolved as carnivores, even if you're a vegetarian, bacon still smells good. Understanding the evolutionary reasons for why bacon is enticing, and similarly why monogamous people are still attracted to others can help people deal with biological urges without shame, while still choosing to live their lives by whatever guidelines they wish.Domandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-84107650822565698202012-05-23T22:47:23.128-07:002012-05-23T22:47:23.128-07:00This discussion is silly. Girls don't like sex...This discussion is silly. Girls don't like sex. They put up with it for various reasons, but pleasure is certainly not anywhere on the list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-73081484515870919522012-05-23T22:47:10.824-07:002012-05-23T22:47:10.824-07:00This discussion is silly. Girls don't like sex...This discussion is silly. Girls don't like sex. They put up with it for various reasons, but pleasure is certainly not anywhere on the list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-427512219356987382012-05-23T20:58:41.824-07:002012-05-23T20:58:41.824-07:00MyTherapistNewYork, Just popped over there. couldn...MyTherapistNewYork, Just popped over there. couldn't figure out how to comment, but loved what you wrote!in bed with married womenhttp://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-88695632316556074212012-05-23T20:38:11.628-07:002012-05-23T20:38:11.628-07:00I talk a bit about the therapeutic and political r...I talk a bit about the therapeutic and political ramifications of "Sex at Dawn" over at http://www.mytherapistnewyork.info/2012/01/20/sex-love-and-politics-a-discussion-of-scandals-monogamy-and-memes/<br /><br />I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had their mind blown!MyTherapistNewYorkhttp://www.mytherapistnewyork.infonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-79886265881088015952012-03-17T07:36:18.631-07:002012-03-17T07:36:18.631-07:00I must definitely read this book now - thanks for ...I must definitely read this book now - thanks for bringing it to my attention! Sounds absolutely fascinating and really important.<br /><br />Just been reading to hubby the bits you've posted about different societies. It's really interesting to think about how there are a huge variety of ways of structuring sexual relationships and parenting within society. It led to discussion of the warped ways Western society has been overcoming the sexual repression of the 19th century, and how much the monogomous couple model is based on men wanting to own their women & children. Which has neatly led to a wonderful conclusion by hubby that were he to insist on my fidelity, it would be a symptom of his oppression of me. So apparently I can now claim my desire for an open marriage as a feminist stance. Nice. :)Duskynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-8173848239394521792012-03-04T19:40:55.384-08:002012-03-04T19:40:55.384-08:00I shared this post with my guy a couple weeks ago,...I shared this post with my guy a couple weeks ago, while he was out of town... He came home yesterday and surprised me with a copy of the book.. One for each of us! We are having our own book club meeting at the end of March.. <br /><br />Excited! Stay tuned for (our) thoughts.Sexy Goddessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-6431822309524598942012-02-25T11:57:36.001-08:002012-02-25T11:57:36.001-08:00Sex at Dawn is dubious pop science at best, a fair...Sex at Dawn is dubious pop science at best, a fairytale at worst. The authors are psychologists with no qualifications to speculate on anthropology or biology. Check out his published papers -- amateur hour as far as prehistoric sex is concerned. It's pure conjecture and not science. <br /><br />Also note, someone mentioned Robin Baker's Sperm Wars, which I also read. It made quite a stir in the 1990s. That author quit academy when his fraudulent research started to unravel. His theory of sperm wars has turned out to be fiction. Actually fiction is too kind -- fraud is the right word. <br /><br />Monogamy and polygamy are part of our history and are indeed fascinating and complex (more complex than they would have it). But please be skeptical of some of these pop science fairy tales. They spin tenuous conjecture into a neat little narrative that proves their initial biases and whatever they like as "natural".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-43029789191002765642012-02-21T15:36:46.637-08:002012-02-21T15:36:46.637-08:00Holy Moley, I'm reading this book. It's ei...Holy Moley, I'm reading this book. It's either a very well-timed or a very bladly-timed discovery!Chloëhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03525391715106497339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-4325915625680679852012-02-21T12:58:38.152-08:002012-02-21T12:58:38.152-08:00I am just standing back and marveling about how fu...I am just standing back and marveling about how fucking smart you all are.in bed with married womenhttp://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-69833068202894792822012-02-19T10:13:35.064-08:002012-02-19T10:13:35.064-08:00Thank you for this post. I recommend Sex at Dawn t...Thank you for this post. I recommend Sex at Dawn to anyone who will listen.<br /><br />One of my many take away points from this book is the origin of male fear (and subsequent insecurity) of female sexuality. <br /><br />The fear resides, I believe, in the seemingly insurmountable task of one man satisfying a women who is in touch with her natural sexuality. As the book states, the chimps sit around taking turns. The double bind for men is that if they allow the women in their life to pursue other partners, the jealous factor enters. So, either a man should "man up" and work like heck to keep his monogamous partner satisfied in all ways (and still have to deal with the insecurity) or let her roam free and deal with the jealousy/insecurity. Not that either isn't resovled within a loving relationship, but it need be addressed.<br /><br />As for men unwilling to try new things, I am hopefully the exception to the rule. I don't get that one, honestly.President, HMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15209220008731339862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-3399530518181193962012-02-19T10:13:27.864-08:002012-02-19T10:13:27.864-08:00Thank you for this post. I recommend Sex at Dawn t...Thank you for this post. I recommend Sex at Dawn to anyone who will listen.<br /><br />One of my many take away points from this book is the origin of male fear (and subsequent insecurity) of female sexuality. <br /><br />The fear resides, I believe, in the seemingly insurmountable task of one man satisfying a women who is in touch with her natural sexuality. As the book states, the chimps sit around taking turns. The double bind for men is that if they allow the women in their life to pursue other partners, the jealous factor enters. So, either a man should "man up" and work like heck to keep his monogamous partner satisfied in all ways (and still have to deal with the insecurity) or let her roam free and deal with the jealousy/insecurity. Not that either isn't resovled within a loving relationship, but it need be addressed.<br /><br />As for men unwilling to try new things, I am hopefully the exception to the rule. I don't get that one, honestly.President, HMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15209220008731339862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-21106192717382960232012-02-18T17:45:19.266-08:002012-02-18T17:45:19.266-08:00The other, perhaps only somewhat related, directio...The other, perhaps only somewhat related, direction of questioning I have has to do with the question of power, i.e. who holds it in relationships when questions of sexual fluidity arise? I'm a believer in Dan Savage's notion of 'good, giving, and game'--but I also recognize that doesn't get around issues of power games. E.g. the idea of a biological imperative to multiple partners might easily be used as a cudgel by one partner in a relationship to try to force an 'intransigent' partner into accepting porous relational boundaries. Is that okay? From the abstract perspective of 'Partners shouldn't stifle each other,' sure. But the opposite may also be argued, namely that partners shouldn't try to force one another into things they're not comfortable with. Or, more concretely, I think of a friend's mother who followed her partner to a new part of the country, deferred education and job experience to raise their kids, and then found herself in a serious hole when he decided she no longer satisfied him and that was opting out of the relationship to follow his sexual desires with utter freedom. Yes, there are larger questions of social organization there, and they should be addressed. But it also leaves the question hanging, Does Sex at Dawn offer anything to help navigate and negotiate some of these questions?<br /><br />I've blathered far too long already, so I'll cut it off here before I start chasing down another rabbit hole. These are just some of the directions my brain travels, and they may or may not be at all interesting to anyone who has read/is reading the book and planning to be a part of the conversation that develops. But there it is, for what it's worth. And I'll remain, at the very least, an interested observer.Cagey-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336508567944952383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-61812553494030978992012-02-18T17:45:13.157-08:002012-02-18T17:45:13.157-08:00[I've got break this into two parts; apparentl...[I've got break this into two parts; apparently, there's a 4,096 character limit that I exceeded. Which is unusual, because I don't usually say very much.)<br /><br />I'm late to the party, as usual. The book sounds incredibly fascinating, although my current must-read pile is far too high for me to add anything else just now. I'll have to eavesdrop on the proceedings as an interest observer. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.)<br /><br />I'll confess up front to being a little skeptical that there is something that could be called 'our true sexual nature,' as if there's some isolatable element floating around inside us that, if we could just get a good look at, would usher us into a realm of sexual salvation, satisfaction, or what have you. Yes, we've got biological impulses--but biology doesn't entirely dictate destiny. <br /><br />For me, the more important questions might have to do with our social sexual scripts--something explored in depth by John Gagnon, who was part of Kinsey's team. We've got a sexual nature, sure--or sexual natures, or however it's best to express that--but those always ever interact with the various social scripts we've learned, whether we're blithely following along, actively rebelling in a way that ironically still ties us to the scripts we're attempting to reject, or some hybrid. In other words, sexuality is filtered through social constructs and social structures. <br /><br />That last point makes me wonder: what is particular about the ways we think about and practice sex within our political and economic context of consumer capitalism? How does our conditioned sense that we are primarily consumers whose desires can and should be met through the transaction of material or symbolic goods lead us to behave in the realm of sex and relationships? Clearly, the development of the heterosexual nuclear family has served capitalism in a number of ways--but does the current, let's say more visible, interest in nonmonogamous forms of sexuality reflect shifts in the shape of consumer capitalism, too, and also serve that mutated economic form? I hesitated about writing that, because it risks coming off as an upfront rejection of and judgment on nonmonogamous relationships, which it definitively is not. Rather, it's a recognition that there are also multiple forms of nonmonogamy, and I'm wondering if there is a particular form, or group of forms, that is more prevalent these days, and what that might reflect about wider social conditions.Cagey-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336508567944952383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-49802035485190622672012-02-17T22:54:59.327-08:002012-02-17T22:54:59.327-08:00This turned out to be a pretty timely post, as I h...This turned out to be a pretty timely post, as I have started what will be a series of posts on my own blog about monogamy and jealousy, why monogamy vs. non-monogamy, etc. It's hard stuff to wrap your head around when you've only know one thing your entire existence. alwayseachother.blogspot.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-89563665859167086172012-02-16T15:44:18.117-08:002012-02-16T15:44:18.117-08:00Well those facts make me glad I'm not a female...Well those facts make me glad I'm not a female gorilla! "Evolution of Desire" by David Buss is another good read on this topic.JLWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4339155460200866959.post-614337056103703172012-02-16T13:11:37.366-08:002012-02-16T13:11:37.366-08:00Oh also, if any of you are really taking a liking ...Oh also, if any of you are really taking a liking to this type of research, I recommend looking into Evolutionary Psychology. It's basically... this book. Big figure in the field is Geoffrey Miller. He did a study on sexuality involving strippers... need I say more? <br /><br />Check the study here: <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/cycle_effects_on_tips.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/cycle_effects_on_tips.pdf</a>not exactly "Saint" Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08718256766306775548noreply@blogger.com